? 12 Oct | Girlie | AMPS 715; +2+HI Test results: creatinine 290

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Girlie's mom

Girlie's mom

Member Since 2017
Condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/11-oct-girlie-amps-488-pmps-479.185259/

Bad mom, bad cat mom: lesson learned - don't let unreasonable fear rule the day or you will rue the day. :( She had already bounced enormously up to 504 before her PMPS yesterday when I foolishly gave her 01, though, unless the vet visit and the Zydax injection just sent her into the stratosphere. :eek:

She got her last Zydax injection on 28 August and had 7 cycles on very high black numbers, but I thought that might be the insulin, so I started a new insulin vial AND increased her dose from 0.75 to 0.1: whatever factor it was brought her right down to lovely numbers and she actually earned a reduction straight away.

I'm being very careful with the insulin ruler...although the doses seem smaller to me given the syringe markings. I wonder if it could be that she's been getting higher doses without using the insulin ruler, so what appeared to be 0.25 before could have been a higher dose?

I guess I'll just keep with the 0.25 now and see how she goes with this horrendous bounce, or should I consider an increase to 0.5 in case she was getting a higher dose just based on the syringe lines earlier and/or the Zydax puts her BG levels up? Any thoughts? @Bron and Sheba , did you notice any correlation between Cartrophen (Zydax is also Pentosan) and higher BG numbers?

I am so confused and feeling very guilty here...:(
 
Girlie and Jones must be communicating through the cat line!

I would be afraid to go to .5 - that may be too high of dose when she clears - she could head straight down again. You got good numbers with the .25 - you need to stick with that for a few more cycles I think - let that depot build up again. Consistency is the key - regardless of what was before - the dose with the ruler is the current method and I would stick with it.

I am not sure what caused Jones' high numbers yesterday but I don't think he is holding the reduction to 0.1 from 0.25u on the current prednisolone dose. Was thinking of trying that .20 on the insulin chart.
 
Girlie's mom said:
did you notice any correlation between Cartrophen (Zydax is also Pentosan) and higher BG numbers?
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I'm not Bron, but Neko was also on Cartrophen. No difference in her numbers. If anything, pain relief can bring numbers down. I am a little curious where she went the night of the 9th.

You got green with 0.25 units as dosed by the insulin ruler - hold the dose and put on the patience pants.
Girlie's mom said:
and feeling very guilty here...:(
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Don't feel guilty - you are doing way more than most diabetic petparents. :bighug:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I'm not Bron, but Neko was also on Cartrophen. No difference in her numbers. If anything, pain relief can bring numbers down. I am a little curious where she went the night of the 9th.

You got green with 0.25 units as dosed by the insulin ruler - hold the dose and put on the patience pants.

Don't feel guilty - you are doing way more than most diabetic petparents. :bighug:
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Patience pants are on! I'll stop beating myself up and just catch her and do ketone checks until she comes down again.

I forgot to put the 9 October PM+3 in - sorry: it was 209.

Thanks, Wendy, so much. :)
 
Hi Darrah,
No I didn't notice any difference with the numbers when Sheba had cartrophen.
As Wendy said, it helped with pain relief if anything.
Yep, drag out the patience pants for a few days and use the high numbers to get some out of the house jobs done.....or give yourself a treat.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Hi Darrah,
No I didn't notice any difference with the numbers when Sheba had cartrophen.
As Wendy said, it helped with pain relief if anything.
Yep, drag out the patience pants for a few days and use the high numbers to get some out of the house jobs done.....or give yourself a treat.
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I gave myself enough of a treat yesterday by getting my hair done and going to the dentist, which is why I started this whole drama for myself...I think no more treats are allowed for me for a while... :oops:

Still, good to know re: the Cartrophen for both you and Wendy. I really think that run of blacks on 28 August had more to do with the insulin - and also, perhaps, her needing a little more juice temporarily.

The other thing that may or may not be at play here is that she seems to be constipated again, poor thing, even with the Cisapride, Miralax (Osmolax in Oz), and pumpkin. The vet said she was, and Girlie had no joy even though she tried this morning, so I bumped her Miralax up a little bit. We'll see how she goes...maybe this is the excuse I need to try the Aloe Vera Juice!

I love my patience pants. I will wear my patience pants as long as need be. They are very attractive and comfortable. This is what I will keep telling myself... :-)
 
Do not beat yourself up!! Seriously. You are doing so much for Girlie. You are the exception and Wendy is right you, we all are, doing so much to help our sugarbabies. A lot more than most would even consider. I just canceled weekend plans again because I just can't leave overnight not knowing where the numbers will go.

Deep breath. Rock those patience pants and wear them like nobodies business. patience pants.jpg

And while I agree getting your hair done is a treat, going to the dentist is not:p.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Beenie said:
Do not beat yourself up!! Seriously. You are doing so much for Girlie. You are the exception and Wendy is right you, we all are, doing so much to help our sugarbabies. A lot more than most would even consider. I just canceled weekend plans again because I just can't leave overnight not knowing where the numbers will go.

Deep breath. Rock those patience pants and wear them like nobodies business. View attachment 31586

And while I agree getting your hair done is a treat, going to the dentist is not:p.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Love the kitty patience pants! And thank you for the support. Yeah - the dentist is definately NOT a treat! And I have to go next week, too...my fault - I drink too much Diet Pepsi (sigh).
 
Test results: I'm concerned re: her creatinine especially. I've put what I got from the vet's email in Girlie's lab results on her SS. I'm really concerned about the creatinine being up to 290. At what point do you consider using phosphate binders? I'll be talking to the vet later, and I'm not quite sure what to ask her or what to think. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated! When these samples were taken, Girlie was looking really good re: her BG numbers; she didn't shoot up into the stratosphere until after the vet visit.

"I (vet) had to send the samples this time to a different lab (Idexx) for the SDMA. I usually send them to Vetnostics but they do not perform the SDMA level. However, the units are the same so the values should be somewhat comparable.

* The urea last time was 28.7 mmol/L and this time is 20.0. So this is stable to slightly reduced.

* The creatinine was 190 (July 2017) and is now 290. This has increased and is concerning, possibly due to progression of renal disease. The in house urinalysis did not reveal any changes on the dipstick to suggest a urinary tract infection (protein negative, blood negative) which can exacerbate kidney disease. If this is truly progression of her kidney disease, we will need to discuss what we would do about this. We wouldn't change her diet. We could implement subcutaneous fluids but this may interfere with her insulin.

* The SDMA is 17 and is mildly high. This is difficult to interpret in light of her other disease processes and is so mild. It doesn't change what we would do with her.
*Her cholesterol is increased but this was not a fasted sample.
* Her thyroid hormone (T4) is within the reference range

Her urinalysis was glucose negative which is consistent with her blood glucose being < 10 in the 12-24 hours prior to sampling. She is ketone negative on the urine dipstick.

Her USG was 1.018. This is still poorly concentrated which is consistent with chronic kidney disease. It is better than last time when it was 1.010, likely due to better control of the diabetes."
 
Can you get a copy of the actual lab test results? I know Marje looks at a lot of different numbers and how the relate to each other (I am not thst smart :D). IDEXX emails the results to my vet and she just forwards that email to me. She (my vet) actually likes my labs tab because she can easily see any changes. See if you can get your vet to email you the results and then tag Marje to take a look. Wendy can lend advise on labs also.

Would be curious what her phosphorus level is.
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Can you get a copy of the actual lab test results? I know Marje looks at a lot of different numbers and how the relate to each other (I am not thst smart :D). IDEXX emails the results to my vet and she just forwards that email to me. She (my vet) actually likes my labs tab because she can easily see any changes. See if you can get your vet to email you the results and then tag Marje to take a look. Wendy can lend advise on labs also.

Would be curious what her phosphorus level is.
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Thanks so much for both of those, Lizzie! I've been trying to read up on the crf site: so much information! And here I thought diabetes was tough to wrap my head around. :confused:

Part of the problem is that the Australian term doesn't necessarily translate into the US terms. I can see "Phosphate" on her July 2017 lab results, which I assume is Phosphorous, but I'm not sure... In July the Phosphate was 1.06 and the Australian reference numbers for that are 1 - 2.00.

I did ask the vet to email me the actual results sheet, but she hasn't yet. I know that so many people here have CKD kitties or have dealt with that in the past. I'm just hoping that I can get some thoughts on what the vet here might recommend. She's a good vet, but I follow the advice here rather than her as far as diabetes goes. I don't know if I want to do sub-q injections yet or if that is the right route to go right now. Anyway - I'll get the rest of the results and then put it up on the labs tab in my SS and go from there.

I just saw that Gizmo is a CKD kitty! How did I miss that?

I think Marje is away at the moment, but as soon as I get the vet's results, I'll tag Marje: thanks for the suggestion!
 
The biggest issue is finding food for both conditions. Low phosphorus and low carb. Also lots of water added to the food. As much as Girlie will tolerate.

Are you still giving Meloxicam? It is hard on kitties liver/kidneys. It has a black box warning.

https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/05/01/meloxicam-dangers.aspx

The METACAM® boxed warning reads as follows:

WARNING
Repeated use of meloxicam in cats has been associated with acute renal failure and death. Do not administer additional injectable or oral meloxicam to cats. See Contraindications, Warnings, and Precautions for detailed information.
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There is a support board associated with Tanya's site here:

https://tanyackd.groups.io/g/support
 
LizzieInTexas said:
The biggest issue is finding food for both conditions. Low phosphorus and low carb. Also lots of water added to the food. As much as Girlie will tolerate.

Are you still giving Meloxicam? It is hard on kitties liver/kidneys. It has a black box warning.

https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/05/01/meloxicam-dangers.aspx



There is a support board associated with Tanya's site here:

https://tanyackd.groups.io/g/support
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I stopped Meloxicam a month ago, and so far she's doing ok with just acupuncture and Zydacks injections. Meloxicam is different in Oz, from what I understand, but I'd still rather have her off it if I can. But thank you! :-)

I tried to join the crf support board before and couldn't get on for some reason. Are you on there?
 
Girlie's mom said:
Are you on there?
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I don't post very often but I do read some for the knowledge (and the search feature works fairly well if I am looking for something specfic). They should send you and e-mail after you register. It is a strange format message board, at least to me, but I am not on but one other forum other than this one and it is the same format as FDMB. I am lizzieintexas over there too.
 
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