4/7 Silver AMPS 202 - UPDATE

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by Juliet, Apr 7, 2018.

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  1. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the report. It's good that he's eating and that they might have found the infection that contributed to this crisis. Ketoacidosis can mess with their electrolyte levels and potassium is part of that.

    They always have some bacteria in or on them. The high sugar level of their urine makes it a very bacteria friendly place so they multiply there. In a non diabetic cat those same bacteria might not find the urine a good place to set up shop in large numbers - ie., an infection.
     
  2. Chubba (GA)

    Chubba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You didn’t do anything to make him sick. From what I understand cats with diabetes are more prone to UTIs due to the glucose in their urine. I believe this is the reason I could be wrong but I remember reading something about it.
     
  3. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    No. You didn't do anything wrong Juliet.

    Diabetics are more susceptible to bladder infections. Bacteria simply likes warm dark moist areas of anything.
     
  4. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    I’m glad the checked out his urine and found a UTI, not uncommon for diabetic cats, unfortunately, but when they culture it, they can find out what antibiotic will squash that infection and then they will give it to him. Asia has had a couple too. I don’t think you could do anything to give him one, UTIs happen, even to people, it’s not something only outdoor cats would get. I’ve heard of supplements people give to help them not get UTIs, but probably the best preventative is keeping his BGs under control (which is what we are all trying to do, easier said than done, I know).

    Thanks for the update, I hope they can get his numbers down, but I’m so glad to hear he is eating, that’s a big deal. When the antibiotics kick in, the numbers should budge a bit. :bighug:
     
  5. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    That's good. How do I handle the dose when I get him back given that they've given him short acting insulin. I don't know if they will also give him Lantus at his normal shot times. I should have asked. He's getting 24 hr care. Vet is there all night as he's at the ER. He may not need same dose if he got up there due to infection?
     
  6. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You did nothing wrong, we all have bacteria in or released of what type of “being” we are. Our antibodies and autoimmune system fight it, but at times it overcomes even the strongest and we/animals get sick. You’ll beat yourself up wondering why Silver got sick, as I have with Davidson especially when I tested him consistently. It is what it is and all we can do is try our best to get our pets back to health.

    You’re at a great place here and many will contribute to give you good advise, and others will give your great support.
     
  7. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    Will have to see where he is at BG wise when he comes home. It wouldn’t surprise me if he did need less insulin, but there’s no way to predict that in advance. The antibiotics can take a bit to work too, so keep that in mind. It won’t matter much if they give him L or rapid, whatever they are doing there is likely going to mess with the depot, but it’s nothing that can’t be figured out and managed when he’s home.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
    Reason for edit: typo
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  8. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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  9. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Okay. I will post when I get him home and rest on his regular meter. It would be good if I got him home tomorrow so I have half a day with him before work. If he is staying overnight Monday I have already asked if I can go into work late and make up the time later. It's monthend busy time for bookkeeping so I won't be allowed to take the day off.
     
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  10. Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

    Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Great news that Silver is eating. I hope all the tests and treatments will go smoothly.
    :bighug::bighug::bighug: More vines are on the way.
     
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  11. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Thanks everyone. Its 8:40 pm here in Ontario but I am heading to bed. I will post a new condo in the morning once the vet has called me with an update. I hope I get him home tomorrow.

    Can't thank everyone enough for their support today. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  12. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    I just checked Silver's SS and saw that it said "in hospital" so jumped over to the board to see what's going on. I haven't been on much because one of my own kitties is in an ER vet in Toronto since Thursday on IV fluids & IV antibiotics :( I'm sorry to hear about the ketones & the UTI but I'm glad it isn't worse than a UTI. Sometimes cats can have a UTI for a while before we notice signs so that could explain why it's been hard to get Silver's numbers down. Hopefully once the infection is gone he will respond better to the insulin for you. Hugs to you & Silver!
     
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  13. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Oh so sorry to hear! Hugs right back and keep me posted on your kitty!
     
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  14. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    I really am going to bed now - but I just sent this to my regular vet....maybe wise, maybe unwise? But they have no clue Silver lost his remission and may be upset I took on his treatment without informing or consulting them. Thoughts?

    Hi,
    I phoned today to update on Silver - he is at the emergency hospital since this morning and is staying overnight, possibly need more care and I may have to bring him in to see regular vet on Monday or even continue his hospital stay.

    Would you please print the attached and put in his file?

    The link is live and active so any time it is clicked on, you will get his updated numbers. Is there any way of getting the link (or this email) saved in his file so it can be referenced?


    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ogEFwwcYHf7ZLndyYe9964BwQroQf-rnPZM3sUqQOAc/edit?usp=sharing


    I am following the Start Low Go Slow Method laid out in the Feline Diabetic Message Board - this was approved by Silver's former vet at Animal Care Clinic where you got his records from so when he lost his remission, I went back to the method and went from there.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-levemir-start-low-go-slow-method-slgs.129446/
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  15. Tracey&Jones (GA)

    Tracey&Jones (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I am so glad that they found the 3rd part of the trifecta and it is something simple to fix! The fact he is eating already is a great sign!

    You did all you could do in this case, took Silver in when he was in obvious distress.

    Big Hugs for you. Hope you get a great sleep. Vines for Silver for a quick recovery.
     
  16. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    No
    NO! You didn’t, my vet explained cats diabetes get it more because when their sugar gets in their urine the bladder is a breeding ground for bacteria, you didn’t do anything, bella has had 2 in the past 6 months. Believe me I asked the same thing
     
  17. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    How did you catch the infection each time? I mean how did you spot it and what did you do?
     
  18. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    He kept going back and forth to the cat boxs over and over and over again, even tried to pee out of cat box, he had the urge but it hurt him to pee, he was dribbling
     
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  19. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    First time I took the er vet my vet was closed, they wanted to do the same and test it but I could not afford the 230 extra dollars so they gave him a wide range antibiotic the 2nd time I took him to my vet and they gave him antibiotics, something to relax urethra, and pain medsand something to make him pee more
     
  20. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Both times he was going back and forth many many many times to all cat boxes
     
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  21. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    I want to tag on to some of the suggestions that others have made.

    Another option for getting a urine sample for a ketone test:

    • Stacy mentioned using a paper cup. Others have used a ladle or a BIG spoon. It sounded like Silver likes her privacy when using the litter box so that may not work.
    • Using aquarium gravel (the small stones that are used in a fish tank) rather than litter will also work. The gravel doesn't absorb the urine so you can test directly in the box. The hassle is that you have to wash the gravel or it gets rather stinky.
    The emergency vet is doing exactly what needs to be done to manage ketones. They are most likely using doses of what we refer to as "R" (Humulin R/Novolin R) which is a short acting insulin to keep Silver's BG from going too high. From what you said, I don't know if they are also using a longer acting insulin, too.

    You mentioned that Silver's potassium levels were off. They are likely giving her a potassium supplement. I'm guessing they have her on IV fluids. The fluids will help to flush the ketones and it's a good way to give medications.

    It's also likely that they will start to get Silver back on her own insulin or at least a longer acting insulin before you bring her home.



     
  22. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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  23. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Agree with @PussCatPrince , silver is in good hands gets some rest for the night
     
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  24. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Yes that's exactly right. They said they were giving him humulin and the potassium stuff in his bag of fluids. Re the pee - an going to try the Saran wrap idea. I struggle with dealing with the cat litter due to bad back so will find it hard to clean out the mess of stones. Trying to find easiest way.
     
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  25. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Am in bed but sleep not happening.
     
  26. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    I'm there! Lol
     
  27. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Just try one thing at a time. The plastic wrap is a good strategy.

    Remember, someone mentioned breathing? Just try to slow your breathing down and begin to relax. Staring at the ceiling won't help you get some sleep.

     
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  28. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    and before Juliet gets any further urge to post.


    Silver is a bloke. A lad. A boy. :p


    Juliet- Shuts your eyes. Turn off your devices.
    You don't want me recording and sending over a lullaby. :eek:

    Oh. And worry not on the ketone testing wee thing. You have a meter that will do a ketone blood test . I will sort something and you shall have those strips to do that.
    I cannot have you rolling around on your own wooden flooring , stalking Silver's bum for an imminent wee stream. You have enough on your plate as it is.

    M
    x
     
  29. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Have you had anything to eat today????
     
  30. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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  31. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    BED. EYES. SHUT. SHEEP. COUNT.
     
  32. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    I've had to use the saran wrap trick to check Merry for ketones because I never see him pee & he doesn't pee often. It took a few tries, a couple times he dug up the saran wrap but then he finally peed without digging it up. Worked great!
     
  33. Myagi (GA) and Heidi

    Myagi (GA) and Heidi Well-Known Member

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    More vines and hugs for Silver and you. :bighug::bighug::bighug: this should be you though knowing your baby is eating better and has a treatable infection. :bighug:
    depositphotos_127158816-stock-photo-gray-kitten-sleeping-sweetly-on.jpg
     
  34. krazy4kritters

    krazy4kritters Member

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    Shhhh, hopefully she is sleeping.
    Sweet dreams Juliet and Silver
     
  35. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Lol you make me laugh. You are so kind.
     
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  36. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    How did they do THAT with straight face. Sooo funny!
     
  37. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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    Only for a couple hrs. And no @Chris & China forgot. Think I woke up hungry.
     
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  38. Juliet

    Juliet Guest

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  39. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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  40. Steph & Quintus & L & O

    Steph & Quintus & L & O Well-Known Member

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    Hey @Juliet, haven’t been around much but have been catching up with your thread. I’m so glad DCIN came through for you and that Silver is being well taken care of in hospital, and that his situation seems under control. Sending you lots of vines and kind thoughts.
     
  41. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    IMG_2215.JPG

    SShh. ‘Come sleep, O sleep, the certain knot of peace’
     
  42. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    @Juliet catching up here. Glad to see Silver doing better and hope he is home soon. Another tip for collecting urine. Use lentil beans. Buy a bag, rinse some off and scatter in a small clean box. They don't absorb so you will get some. I put plastic wrap on bottom of pan than some beans. My Olive is such a digger. She must have something in the pan to use it. You can rinse after and reuse them.

    Also if possible a blood ketone meter would be the best. Ketones show up quicker in the blood than in urine. Check the supply closet to see if anyone is offering one. You can also post that you are looking for one. Strips are expensive though.
     
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  43. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    It's a dirty world. There is an outbreak of Raccoon distemper over here and there is Raccoon poop in out backyard.
    No way is it something you did or did not do.
     
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