5/26/2019 Leoberry - regulated but not eating much (pictures)

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by JeffJ, May 26, 2019.

  1. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    link to previous thread

    Leo is in his 4th year of diabetes, and approaching his 13th birthday (in mid June). Unfortunately his health has been declining since January.
    - not eating as much over the past months
    - hardly eating at all the last 3 days
    Feb 5 = 15.75 pounds
    May 25 = 13.15 pounds, and he feels bony

    We are trying to get him to eat anything. He is getting Mirtazipine (hunger stimulant), which is partly effective but it can't resolve the swallowing issue (below).

    4/23 Salivary Glands
    The vet diagnosed his salivary glands as very enlarged or tumorous. The salivary glands are so integral to eating, she did not feel the surgery was viable. We think the salivary tumors are from Acro, or could be an extension of his small cell lymphoma.

    He has big issues swallowing and chewing. He often eats one or two bites then runs from his food, as he is trying to swallow. We are partially successful with liquid food and gravy. We are trying to feed him small amounts every 2-3 hours. I will put him back on Zeniquin this week. That seemed to help last month. We are hoping he makes it to his 13th birthday.:(

    His insulin demand is now down to 1.5 units/dose, from 18.0 units/dose before SRT for the Acro. We are thankful for that result.

    Leo still loves laptime. He also spends a lot of time near Little Dude, and they remain the very best of brothers. Pictures from last few days.
    LD and Leo - best brothers ever 05-22-2019b.jpg
    Leo and LD on lap and lawn chairs - 05-26-2019b.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  2. Pamela & Amethyst

    Pamela & Amethyst Well-Known Member

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    Dec 11, 2016
    GOD BLESS!!!:bighug: LOTS of Love,Light and Healing!!:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  3. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Aren't they cute together.
     
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  4. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

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    Nov 3, 2017
    Thank you for the pictures and update. Poor baby Leo... but he’s in the best of places... with your love and care..
    Sending prayers and hogs your way...:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  5. Krystina & Nelli

    Krystina & Nelli Well-Known Member

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    Oh Jeff, these pic are precious and at the same time saddening.
    You are both in my thoughts and prayers... seriously :bighug:
     
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  6. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    :bighug::bighug: For you and Theresa and lots of scritches for LD and especially sweet Leo.

    Leo, you keep enjoying that laptime and hanging out with your brother.

    Jeff, Colin had the chew a few bites and run thing too. He really liked the Tiki Cat Velvet.
     
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  7. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Thanks everyone.

    Thanks Sharon - I'll try the Tiki Cat Velvet. Colin was an acro-kitteh too, and both Colin and Leo probably have the same issue.
     
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  8. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 12, 2018
    They looks so relaxed and enjoy every day! Sending prayers!!:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  9. nslade001

    nslade001 Member

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    Nov 12, 2018
    So darn sweet :) Leo is a lucky baby to have you guys. Thinking of you with love, Nikki.
     
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  10. Ti-Mousse

    Ti-Mousse Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2018
    Nice you posted! I was just wondering how your sweet Leo was doing as his 13th birthday is coming on the 19th of June and your were worried about it!
    Beautiful pictures !!! What a lucky little minou to have you!! He looks so secure and comfy on your laps, nothing wrong can happen to him there !
    Thinking of you and Leo and sending prayers and love ! :bighug::cat::bighug:
     
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  11. Sonia & Leo

    Sonia & Leo Well-Known Member

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    May 24, 2018
    Awww Jeff, our thoughts with you and Theresa, huge hugs to you both and your dear kitties, they are so sweet together. :bighug:
     
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  12. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Thanks everyone.

    We just went to the store and bought several Tiki Cat Velvet packets. Leo ate a nice sized blob of it, the most he ate all day. Thanks Sharon for the suggestion.

    We just discovered Theresa forgot to give prednisolone this morning. That is what caused the hypo today. Pred is a gluco-corticoid and raises BG, similar to an unregulated kitteh.
     
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  13. Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)

    Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2010
    Sending comfortable eating vines to dear Leo. He is such a fine kitty and looks so content being close to Little Dude. Thinking of you all and wishing for lots more quality lap time for Leo and his beans.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  14. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2012
    Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  15. Tracey&Jones (GA)

    Tracey&Jones (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 12, 2016
    Scritches for Leo. Sending you prayers.:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  16. Sandi & Whisper

    Sandi & Whisper Member

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    Oct 2, 2015
    Just a quick comment to say that no antibiotic has put multiple cats of ours off their food more than zeniquin, but you must have reason to think it will help more than harm (sorry, I've not been around much lately and don't know what issue Leo had last month). Glad to hear he ate some Tiki Cat. Have you tried the liver shake or bone broth yet?

    I love the pic of Leo holding LD :bighug:. My first two cats (ever) were an Orange tabby boy and a grey tabby boy, so your two really make me smile when I see their pictures.

    Hope you can find something to snap Leo out of this cycle of inappetence!
     
  17. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Thanks all.

    Hi Sandi - zeniquin actually seems to make Leo a bit hungry. Leo has small cell lymphoma (for 2 years now). We stopped chemo in January because he wasn't eating. We have done a few courses of zeniquin in the last few months to stave off infection. Maybe the zeniquin stimulates Leo because of underlying infection.

    Leo did like the Tiki Cat. We can try bone broth and liver shake too. Appetite issues seem to take a lot of cats on the forum. I guess it's the same for people too. When a cat or human gets so "down", they just don't feel like eating. It's hard when they lose so much weight. My poor kitteh Leo. Even this sick, he still loves on Little Dude.
     
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  18. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    I’m pleased Leo likes the Tiki Cat. Hugs to you and Theresa. And lots of love to Leo and LD. Love the photos
     
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  19. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    We are 8 hours into the AM cycle today. He probably ate 4-5 tablespoons at most - all day. We gave him some karo when he was around BG 70, since I knew he was going lower. We syringed 2 tablespoons into him - always an unpleasant experience. He is barely interested in any food, included the "incredible" tuna juice. He did eat some cat kibble.

    I wonder if cats can live on really low calorie intake. If he is not very active, then maybe he doesn't need the entire 2.5 cans of recommended food/day.

    Dosed more:
    - mirtazipine (Mirtaz)
    - cerenia
     
  20. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    :bighug:
    Sending appy vines for sweet Leo:bighug:

    Do you give anything for pain? I gave Colin some gabapentin for mouth pain, and was going to try CBD oil
     
  21. Amanda and a Loudogg

    Amanda and a Loudogg Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2017
    Oh Jeff, I am so sorry to hear Leo isn't doing well. I love how close he and LD are. Even when he's not feeling the best he loves to love on his bro. I'm sending vines to all of you. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  22. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Thanks for the additional vines. Leo ate some Tiki mouse and some crunch for pre-dinner, almost as much as Little Dude.

    Leo the Loverboy - that is his nickname. He always likes having a buddy, including Joey the dog in 2006. And when we have people over, Leo always walks over and gives leg loving. He is the most socialized cat we ever had.

    Pain mgmt - I'll give Leo some Bupe tonight and see if that is helpful. Another suggested CBD oil. At this point we will try anything to keep him stable. Fortunately still 13.3 pounds this morning.
     
  23. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Sorry Leo isn’t eating enough. Neko also had mouth issues, I wish the Tiki Cat Mousse had been around then.

    Did Leo have hypo symptoms today? Most cats don’t in the 40’s. My civvie tested in the 40’s. You just don’t want kitties on insulin there, and we call it a low numbers event.
     
  24. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Hi Wendy - welcome back from vacay. Leo rarely exhibits hypo symptoms until he gets into the 30's. But he is also predictable. Once he goes on the downward slide, he keeps going down.

    In the past Leo exhibited symptoms:
    45-55 - more lethargic, slightly weak
    35-45 - very lethargic, inability to stand without shaking, cries loudly and plaintively
    22 - our biggest mistake, small seizures, couldn't move, cried loudly, created longterm pupil difference and possible brain damage

    I'll type in Leo's numbers in next 10 minutes. For tomorrow, I might buy some CBD oil. Leo is barely eating - for the past 3 days.
     
  25. Sonia & Leo

    Sonia & Leo Well-Known Member

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    May 24, 2018
    I'm so sorry Jeff. Maybe the CBD will help Leo, Joy @JoyBee&Ravan gives it to her kitties. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  26. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    I consider that a decent amount of food! Ravan doesn't eat " 5 tablespoons of food " in a day!

    Leo doesn't look at all thin in the photo? I think they both look just fine. I guess it's just me. I'm always concerned about my kitties being overweight!

    Now Peggy Sue is another story. She's really lost weight You can see it especially in her hind quarters, They are caved in looking & no tummy at all.
    And she'll eating OK now.

    I hope Leo feels better. The CBD oil works great for all 3 of my cats. (You do need to be careful what brand you buy.)
     
  27. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    Nov 30, 2016
    Prayers for Leoberry, he is in very good hands :)
     
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  28. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Thanks for the vines and the help. Leo looked like a "fit cat" at 16 pounds. If he only eats 3/4 can a day, then he will continue to lose weight. Today he did eat some mush food. But he had little interest - mostly because of the swallowing issue. He did get some cat kibble. I think he likes it because he can swallow them whole, as they are 1/4" kibbles. Really bad for his blood sugar.

    Tomorrow I'm going to ask our vet if CBD interferes with pred absorption. I read about CBD today and absorption issues. My vet sells CBD from the office.
     
  29. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Apr 3, 2018
    Lovies for Leo and Little Dude. The pics are wonderful, thanks for sharing. It always makes me happy to see those two fur kids, especially together. I hope the CBD oil is an option. Hugs to you and Theresa also. :bighug:
     
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  30. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Leo, I was half asleep when I first posted this. Sorry buddy.
    Sending lots of love and a little ear rub. :bighug:
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
    Reason for edit: screw up
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  31. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Thanks Lou and Dickson.

    We did a vet visit - to see if there was anything further we can do. The vet spent 20-30 minutes with Leo and us. Leo is a longtime patient, and she is very familiar with his history. Summary:
    • Salivary glands are slightly reduced in size from last visit
    • Salivary / throat surgery is infeasible. She said usually the esophagus contracts after surgery, making the issue worse.
    • Elevated WBC (white blood cell count), hoping additional zeniquin will help
    • Temperature is slightly elevated, but not by much
    She thinks Acro and/or small cell lymphoma issues are compounding. There is no viable remedy for the swallowing issue. Since Leo is eating very little, she recommended we feed him anything he will eat - including cat kibble. The last cycle of zeniquin seemed to help. The vet said Leo is not looking good, and if we can't get him to eat, then we may be approaching the final time. She said if he is not eating, or it is very minimal, then 1-2 weeks is the viable boundary. If that is the case, we have the number for the Compassionate Vet who can visit us at home.:(

    We discussed CBD oil. She said it takes a couple weeks to take effect, if effective at all. So we opted out of that.

    We bought some different pureed foods. Leo ate some pureed salmon cat food when we got back from the vet. We are really hoping this is just a short "down period" that we can get him through.
    Leo CBC values 05-28-2019.jpg
    Leo CBC values 05-28-2019b.jpg
     
  32. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 12, 2018
    Sending many many many prayers to you all
    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  33. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  34. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
    Sending tons of prayers and vines:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  35. Sonia & Leo

    Sonia & Leo Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  36. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    We had a minor triumph in the last 20 hours. After 4 days of almost no eating, Leo ate normal "cat" portions of
    - Origen treats (very soft)
    - significant Fussy Cat "Market Fresh" kibble - Salmon and Chicken
    - Nulo kibble

    Versus not eating at all. We got him to eat something. At this point we are happy he finally ingested significant food. His BG spiked from the dry food. But we are ecstatic that he ate some food.:)

    Leo got bupe yesterday 2:00pm, so that may have helped. Perhaps he has pain in his gut, or general body pain. Who knows? If he continues to eat, then we can adjust the situation. YAY for Leo (for today).
     
  37. Sonia & Leo

    Sonia & Leo Well-Known Member

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    That's fantastic news Jeff!!!
     
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  38. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

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    Great news!
     
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  39. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Yay Leo!!!
     
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  40. nslade001

    nslade001 Member

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    Nov 12, 2018
    So happy Leo is feeling well enough to eat :) thinking of you with love, Nikki
     
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  41. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2012
    I hope the bupe continues to work, it made a huge difference for Neko. Keep eating Leo.
     
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  42. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

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    That’s just awesome Jeff!!:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  43. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    Nov 30, 2016
    Great news on Leo eating! He is a trooper for sure. Keeping the vines going :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  44. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Thanks everyone. We didn't think he was going to make it to the end of the week. This is a minor miracle and we hope Leo continues to improve. The bupe must have helped a lot, so he got more today.

    Leo still has no interest in the healthy food - Fancy Feast, Tiki mousses, etc. His only interest is crunch food and soft treats. Maybe he can somehow swallow the pieces and they don't feel stuck in his throat.

    The unfortunate side effect of crunch - sky high BG. I increased his dose. It is odd how sick a cat can be, yet they look fairly normal. Leo still is being very sweet. Little Dude likes to lay on the cool concrete in the summer....versus actually doing the smart thing - and coming in the house. And to answer a question - YES, that chubby cat gut is softer than an Elvis Velvet Painting!

    Sweet Leo 05-29-2019b.jpg
    Little Dude cooling off 05-29-2019.jpg
     
  45. Sonia & Leo

    Sonia & Leo Well-Known Member

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    May 24, 2018
    Love the pictures of Leo and Little Dude, they're both adorable! Please keep them coming! It's great that Leo is eating, even if it's "junk" food. I'm sure it tastes better than the healthy stuff anyway, and he deserves it, poor little guy. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  46. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Leo is still in the running. If he keeps eating, that will provide nutrients. He is still eating 90% crunch (Nulo and Fussy Cat kibbles). We know the bupe was the game changer. He must have internal pain or discomfort.

    We will be adjusting the following:
    - reduced bupe if to see if it is effective at smaller doses
    - continued enticement with FF classic and other wet foods
    - optimize insulin dose to get him under 200 at nadir

    We are not delusional. There is cancer or Acro stuff going on, and it isn't viably treatable. But we can target the symptoms. Leo is now here for another week. We hope Leo is here for one or more months. He has been a trooper through all of his treatments. He is getting brushed a lot, and giving us lots of wonderful Leoberry purrs. :joyful:

    Our sweet Acro-kitteh Leo on his favorite outside chair
    and Chinus the lap magnet "helping" me work

    Leo relaxing outside 05-31-2019b.jpg
    Chinus lap magnet 05-31-2019b.jpg
     
  47. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2012
    Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  48. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jun 15, 2015
    I’m so sorry to hear Leo with the mouth and eating issues. Sounds like he has turned the corner. It’s funny, but whenever Bubba has a toothache abs stopped eating, dry kibble is all he would eat. You’d think wet would be easier. :confused:

    Keep up the good progress. Sweet photos!
     
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  49. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Thanks for the vines and prayers. For the past 5 days, Leo has been mostly acting and eating like a normal diabetic cat.

    While Leo still is eating 90% kibble, we are happy with the progress. I agree with you Bobbie - if there are toothache or mouth pain, I would have predicted soft food would be easier. It is probably because it gets caught in his mouth. Or maybe the soft food is not flowing very well into his stomach. Whenever he runs from the food bowl, it is always after eating soft food.

    High BG today. We're trying to regulate a cat on dry food. Leo is getting brushed lots more than the others (Little Dude and Chinus), and they are way jealous!
     
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  50. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Leo absolutely loves his brother Little Dude.

    Every time they move about, Leo comes over and they both head butt each other. Leo does more licking than LD, and LD just loves the attention. Who could ask for more? Our boys are the best ever.

    Leo loves LD 06-01-2019b.jpg
     
  51. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    The boys are being very good today.
    - Leo is still running very high BG from the 95% crunch diet.
    - Also drinking lots of water as expected.
    - He is still getting 2x daily bupe.

    Otherwise, he is still acting like a fairly healthy cat. And he is almost as active as LD. We hope this trend continues. I think he is now on his 15th life (way past 9 lives).

    Below:
    - Cat sandwich - life is good
    - Little Dude getting a softness checkup
    - Pool - Jeff procrastinated way to long, now must drain and refill

    Cat sandwich - LD, Mom, Leo 06-02-2019c.jpg
    Little Dude belly rub 06-02-2019c.jpg
    Pool algae 06-02-2019c.jpg
     
  52. Sonia & Leo

    Sonia & Leo Well-Known Member

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    May 24, 2018
    Very sweet pictures Jeff, those kitties are so hilarious when they talk to each other and I bet Theresa loves being the center of a cat sandwich! Thanks for sharing!
    Beautiful pool. Can you not just skim the algae and shock it?
     
  53. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Thanks Sonia. We really like it when the kittehs are sleeping on us. Theresa had Little Dude on lap last night for 2 hours. He purred almost the whole time. We are so lucky.

    The algae is at all layers in the pool. We owned, and I maintained this pool since 1994. I was overloaded at work this year. I did apply a product that sinks particles to the bottom, but this algae bloom was too thick. It is a good excuse to drain the pool then do an acid wash to restore the original color of the particle-blend deep blue surface.
     
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  54. Sybil and Zoe

    Sybil and Zoe Member

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    Oct 16, 2018
    Hugs and prayers :bighug: Leo looks like a wise old soul. I love the way your boys love each other. Its so touching. I had two kitties like that before, but my two girls (adopted as shelter kittens), have never done much more than tolerate each other. Each are loving cats in their own way, just not shared with each other:(. Prayers Leo will continue to improve, bless his heart!
     
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  55. Susan&Felix

    Susan&Felix Well-Known Member

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    Sep 4, 2017
    Being a Momma Sammich on Kittycat Bread is one of my favorite things! Leo's body language suggests that he's comfortable; that's so good to see.
     
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  56. Sonia & Leo

    Sonia & Leo Well-Known Member

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    May 24, 2018
    Good description Susan! lol lol! My DH and I are still giggling about that one!
     
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  57. Tucker

    Tucker Member

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    May 22, 2018
    Your boys are too cute together, such pals :) and you are the best cat parents they could ask for. I'm so sorry it's been a battle since we last spoke, but I know you have done and will continue to do whatever you can for your bubs. Every purr is precious!
     
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  58. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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