New member needing advise please

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by Bron and Sheba, Feb 21, 2015.

  1. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi everyone. My name is Bron and I live in Sydney, Australia. My cat Sheba is a 12 year old Australian Spotted Mist (my snow leopard). She was a rescue cat along with a silver tabby named Maxie who died almost 2 years ago, after years of bowel issues and finally cancer. They were best friends. Sheba has been with me since she was about a year old. Sheba was originally diagnosed with diabetes on 11 April 2011 and went into remission on 11 July 2011 (on Lantus 3 months). She remained in remission until Nov 2013 (15 months ago). Following a bout of chronic diarrhoea, she relapsed. She was put on dry low allergy food for a week and this, along with a temp from unknown cause (possibly a touch of pancreatitis which she is prone to), tipped her out of remission. I had been monitoring her BSLs while on the dry food and they were normal until the temp. She went straight back on lantus, but despite my best efforts I have not been able to regulate her. My vet supports my home testing BSLs and leaves the dosing up to me.
    I have been looking at FDMB for months now and I have learnt so much from you all, thank you.
    I apologise in advance for the length of this.

    Health issues: Nil before diabetes.
    Pancreatitis – goes off food, sometimes a temp, dehydrated and pain. Responds to subQ fluids (one off), antibiotics and pain med. Has had fPL tests which is sometimes positive, sometimes negative.
    Chronic Diarrhoea – eventually found cause to be the M/D prescription food; now resolved.
    Arthritis of elbow, back legs and spine.
    Kidney issues and raised blood pressure– recently has had slightly raised BUN and protein in urine. Put on benazepril which has reduced protein in urine and BP down to 130-140 from 160.
    Peripheral Neuropathy - given Zobaline, now mostly resolved. Jumping up on chairs etc again.
    Food: Raw and cooked (home prepared by me), total 120 grams twice a day; fed at +0 and +3. I also use an auto feeder.
    Appetite: Very good.
    Weight: Went down to 4.8 kgm when she had diarrhoea and later diabetes, then slowly went up to 5.2kgm where she stayed for ages. She still looked thin. After the bowel issue was resolved and blood sugars better, she put on weight until she is now around 6 kgm and looks good.
    Bowels: Normal
    Urine:Still wees too much especially on days of high BSLs but I do give her extra oral fluids every day (water in food and some chicken stock I make myself – bones and water, nothing else) to maintain hydration
    Monitoring BSLs: Take BSL before giving insulin every time and do tests later in the cycle. Sheba is very co-operative.
    Medications: Benazepril. Zobaline when needed.
    Insulin: Currently on Levemir 6 units BD. Edit – I increased dose to 6.25 today.
    Initially on Lantus, then tried Levemir but Sheba’s BSLs were worse so went back to Lantus. Last September tried Levemir again and Sheba has been on it ever since. Initially my vet would tell me what dose of insulin to give and he would always go up one unit at a time. Sheba would respond, but never stay in lower numbers - bounced. When I got to about 8 units Lantus, I began to wonder if she was having too much. I tried lowering the dose but her wees increased. I emailed Rhett Marshall from Queensland Uni who has a practice in Q’land – he is the chap who wrote several papers on diabetes and works with Ms Rand. I didn’t know if his address was current but emailed anyway and to my surprise and delight, I had a phone call from him about 4 hours later. He was very supportive and encouraging. He told me I was doing everything right and to keep going up until I got a result. He said to be brave and shoot the lower numbers (we were talking 10mmol/L(180) at that point). I felt so much better after talking to him. I did as he said and started to get really good numbers. I got to 11 units for a couple of days and was getting nadirs down to 2.9(52) (lower if I had not intervened). I had started to go back down the scale as far as 10 units when Sheba suddenly got very sick. My vets could not find what was wrong. Her mobility was terrible and she wouldn’t eat and was in pain. In doing tests, they did Xrays which showed she had arthritis of the spine and after talking to me, gave her metacam. I know none of you like metacam, I don’t either much, but we have a different dosage here in Aust and the vets assured me it was safe. All her kidney levels were good and she was so bad I had to do something. I bought her home that night and within a few hours she was up and about, hungry and grooming herself. I had lowered her dose of insulin to 6 units Lantus from 10 units because she was not eating and I did not have to increase it after starting the metacam. I think pain was a big part of her problem. I slowly reduced the metacam down to mark 2 (she started at mark 5) without any problems resurfacing. About a month ago I stopped metacam because she had a small pink vomit which could have been caused by the metacam (plus she had the raised BUN which freaked me out).

    Sheba’s Problems:
    1
    . She is the world’s biggest bouncer I am sure. She used to bounce for every reason you list. Now she is used to low numbers, she bounces when the numbers drop fast. I have tried to slow the drop with food.

    2. She can be having a good cycle and then go up fast near the end of the cycle to a high number.
    3. If she drops fast,the nadir is usually early and she shoots up high at the end of the cycle.

    4. High AMPS. I have tried giving her a bit of food about 3am but this makes no difference.

    5. For Dec and January her BSLs were really good. She was beginning to respond to almost every cycle and get very good or reasonable nadirs and some pre-shots as low as 6 (108) but mostly much higher preshots, esp. AMPS. She sometimes gets AMPS in the 12-16 mmol/L range (216 -288). She was almost regulated a few weeks ago for several weeks, and I very stupidly decided to try TID dosing to try and even out the numbers more and lower the AMPS. (I didn’t do this lightly but thought about it for weeks and now I am furious with myself). She remained in the mid to high teens with TID and did not go lower even after I raised the dose, so I went back to BID. I did not want her to get used to higher numbers. Her numbers started to be good again but this past 10 days (apart from 2 cycles which were good) she has remained in high numbers and five times her AMPS have been “HI” (over 27.8). I upped the dose from 5 and three quarters units to 6 units Levemir. The 1st cycle dropped to nadir 9.6 (172) and 4th cycle to nadir 7.6 (136) but the rest have been higher. Initially after stopping the metacam I did not see any change in the BSLs, but I have this past 10 days. It is now 34 days since stopping metacam; I think that she may be getting some pain back again which is affecting her BSLs. What do you think? I gave her quarter of a buprenorphine tablet yesterday and also the other day (which I think she swollowed instead of leaving in her mouth) to see if it made a difference to the BSLs but it did not. I had her checked 2 weeks ago at the vet. Her teeth are fine, appetite good and she seems well generally, maybe not quite so sprightly. Her urine was showing large amounts of leucocytes which concerned me but the vet said to ignore that in cats. Is that correct? My vet has been away for a few days but I am thinking I might get an appt Monday to check bloods and talk about pain meds. Any pain meds you can suggest?
    I went up to 6.25 units levemir this morning. Amps hi; +3 22.8 (410); +7 15.1(271);+9 14.9(268); +11 15.8(284) PMPS 18.6 (334). So that is an improvement.
    Thank you for taking the time to read this long message. I hope it is not too jumbled and makes sense. I feel very down about it all. I would be very thankful for any advice you may have.
    Bron and Sheba
     
  2. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Welcome, you seem to have your hands full. Can you create a spreadsheet with the BG values and does. That way we can see better what is happening and can give you suggests. Here is how to do that
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/
    What recipe are yo using for your homemade food?
    I would not be concerned about a high BUN if the creatitine is fine since BYN is very diet dependent and a high protein diet will cause an elevated BUN.
     
  3. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Thank you for the welcome Larry. The recipe I am using is the one from Lisa Piersons site, although I have cut down on organ meat a bit since the BUN was raised. I use raw kangaroo meat and cooked chicken as the main meats. I use egg shell powder I make myself for the calcium and add the other recommended supplements.
    I will try and create a spreadsheet tomorrow. It is almost midnight here and I should be asleep! Bron
     
  4. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Welcome to FDMB. We've several folks from down under on the board at present. Are you anywhere near the University of Queensland? Dr Rand, an international expert on feline diabetes, works there. Sorry - didn't see the note you'd made about that.

    When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to your signature? It will help us give you feedback without having to go look in all your past posts.

    Editing your Signature

    In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

    Click on your ID.

    On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
    This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
    This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    Add any other text, such as
    your name,
    cat's name,
    date of Dx (diagnosis)
    insulin
    meter
    any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
    Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

    Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
  5. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    BJ, - Bron has been in contact with a colleague of Dr Rand :):
    Hi Bron, and welcome to FDMB :bighug:

    There are other folks here at the moment who are managing both pancreatitis and diabetes, and I'm going to tag a couple who may be able to give advice on that: @phlika29 , @Critter Mom

    Eliz
    .
     
  6. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Chalk that up to my crappy vision!
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  7. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Hi and and welcome to the forum.

    First off I am going to tag @Wendy&Neko as I believe Neko has arthritis of the spine and is receiving medication that may be of interest to you. Wendy what medication -anti inflammatory or painkillers could Bron ask his vet about with regards Sheba spine issues?

    With regards the pancreatitis my remi has chronic pancreatitis that flairs on and off. After years to trial and error I have found a few things that 'appear' to help. I say appear because although he seems fine his numbers are still high than normal but unless you can indemnify an underlying cause then you treat the symptoms. For me that means using a low carb, high protein, low fat food (thrive), a daily anti nausea medication (ondansetron ), a 1/8 Zantac twice a day, monthly vitamin B12 injections and the addition of water to his diet. I don't change this routine at all. If I do ever change anything it is one thing at a time and done very slowly.

    If he flairs than I add in buprenex painkiller which I inject rather than give the oral one. Before remi was diagnosed as being diabetic (following long term oral steroid use) he was spilling glucose into his urine when he had a pancreatitis flair but that that resolved when he got better. He got better when he had the right supportive regime in place for a number of weeks.

    Remi's blood tests always show that the body is having an inflammatory response to something, for him that can be from his asthma, pancreatitis or IBD.
     
  8. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Hi Bron, popping by as per request. I just have a quick moment but will come back later.

    First thing is to treat the arthritis. Are you adding fish oil to Sheba's diet? It's a good anti-inflammatory. You can also add glucosamine to the diet - Cosequin is one option. Other things for arthritis are Cartrophen injections - which I know are available in Australia, ask your vet. Most people find them quiet helpful. Second thing is pain management. Buprenorphine (shorted to bupe, trade name Buprenex) is commonly used here. You need a prescription. It's a narcotic, you can get it compounded with flavour. Neko gets it twice a day and it makes a huge difference. Other pain management alternatives in decreasing order of preference are gapabentin and tramadol. They used Metacam in Canada too, but Neko's vet's aren't keen to suggest it either. It also causes liver issues.
     
  9. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Bron,

    I adopt similar strategies to Sarah with respect to managing Saoirse's pancreatitis (ondansetron once a day if she's uncomfortable, ad hoc otherwise; bupe occasionally for pain, organic catnip toy if mildly uncomfortable). With regard to glucose regulation, I feed Saoirse once every two hours. Based on her data, she actually tends to do better when fed very regularly: the food seems to encourage her pancreas to pulse insulin better. If Saoirse fasts too long, her BG rises. I first spotted that pattern when she sometimes skipped some of her overnight timed feeds. She would then give me a high AMPS on insulin. She does the same off insulin, so as best I can ascertain either her pancreas doesn't secrete enough of a basal insulin trickle or her liver is somewhat resistant to insulin.

    If you do try fish oil for Sheba, I'd recommend keeping an eye on her when you first give it to see if she shows any sign of nausea (hopefully she won't). I tried to give Saoirse a salmon oil supplement because of its anti-inflammatory benefits but it really disagrees with her (getting her tested for allergies soon). She seems to tolerate non-salmon fish oil in her current food fairly OK.
     
  10. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Thank you all for the welcome and great information. You have no idea how good it is to feel I am not alone in this.

    BJM - thanks for the info on how to edit my signature. I will do it ASAP.

    Elizabeth - thanks for tagging phlika29 and Critter Mom.

    Phlika29 - thank you for tagging Wendy and Neko and for the great info on pancreatitis. I feed Sheba a high protein, low carb and fairly low fat diet also. She can tolerate a little bit of fat eg. the fat that is in a chicken drumstick but I do cut off most of the visible fat and all the fat from a chicken heart which can be quite fatty. I also add extra water to her diet. How much do you add a day? I sometimes wonder if I add too much but she always drinks it. She has a robust appetite (would eat all day if I let her.) Loves to raid the bin if she can and used to jump up on the table to get any food I was silly enough to leave out. She hasn't done that for ages now although she somehow jumped up onto the high sideboard one night to get at some flowers I thought were safe to leave there. I didn't see her do it, but found the flowers vomited up on the floor below next morning. :eek:
    She doesn't need daily anti nausea meds but when she gets sick, her appetite is the first thing to go. If she doesn't want her food I know she is sick!
    Gosh you have a lot to manage with all your Remi's health issues. You are all such good and caring people.

    Wendy and Neko - thank you for the information on arthritis. Yes I am adding fish oil to Sheba's diet. I also bought a product - joint care powder for cats which contains green lipped mussel powder. I didn't start it at the time because she was on metacam and I was worried they might interact. Not sure why I thought that. Also I remember she was just getting better after being sick and I didn't want to rock the boat.
    I will look at cosequin, thanks for the suggestion.
    I think we might call cartrophen adequan here. I will ask my vet about that too.
    Yes I definitely need to sort out the pain management. I am sure it is affecting her BSLs. I was given some Bupe (we call it temgesic here) for Sheba but it was in tablet form. Liquid was not mentioned. It is quite hard to administer the tablet which has to go under the tongue (hopeless) or up under the top lip. I haven't given it often, but mostly she either swollows it or spits it out! I don't think my vets are big on other pain meds except metacam which they think is really good.

    Critter Mom - thank you for your information on how you manage pancreatitis. I might try giving Sheba some food later in the cycle to see if it helps. That is a good idea.
    Yes I do give Sheba fish oil and it doesn't seem to adversely affect her (touch wood). She likes it actually which is a bonus.

    OT. I have some information about Australian canned cat food. Should I post it in a separate thread over on health or just here??
    Bron
     
  11. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I meant to ask - why does the photo of Sheba on the intro page have a smaller one attached to it and why are there reading glasses attached to my line???
    Did I do that by mistake or am I being watched!!:nailbiting:
     
  12. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Only by the NSA. ;)

    The smaller avatars are usually displayed when you have contributed to a thread. Haven't a scooby about the reading glasses.

    Talking of avatars, that's a smashing picture of Sheba. :)
     
  13. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    I think it means you are watching the thread and will get alerts:bookworm:

    Re the water I give me a couple of 5 ml syringes daily but if unwell with at least double it and add water to his food. I feed remi 8 small meals a day like critter mom and try to spread them out evenly.
     
  14. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I just went into alerts and changed it but no change on the main intro page. Yikes!

    Phlika29 - Gosh maybe I am giving Sheba too much water. When she was on metacam I had to make sue she was well hydrated so I started adding the water to her food, and gave her chicken stock later in the day as a treat (she thinks it is a treat). She willingly drinks about 300 to 400 mls a day that way. She could easily manage with less but I was also told to give her more with her possible kidney issue. And with the higher BSLs she is having at the moment I don't want her to need subQ fluids. which occasionally happens. What do you think?

    Critter Mom - who are the NSA?
    I took that photo of Sheba yesterday . She sits there like that every day watching me in the kitchen hoping I will drop food on the floor so she can grab it:cat:
     
  15. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    That's a fair amount of liquid but I would think that is fine. I wouldn't change what you are doing. When remi was really poorly I would give over 100 ml via a syringe.

    What is in the chicken stock? Do you make it yourself? How much of that does she drink each day? I am off to bed now but will check back in in the am

    @Carl & Polly & Bob (GA) will be able to answer your watched/photo questions in post 11 but I am sure all is good
     
  16. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
  17. Is the small picture also of Sheba?
    That means that you have replied to the post at least once. If there are "glasses" to the right, that would indicate that you marked the thread to "watch it", and you would get an alert any time someone responds to it.
    In your preferences, there is an option to automatically watch any thread that you start. It could be that that box is "checked", and any thread you start will be " watched" and you'd see the "glasses" that you mentioned. If you unchecked that box, then only the threads you choose to watch manually will be watched.
     
  18. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi Carl,
    Yes the small photo is of Sheba.
    I have been into the preferences and they are all unchecked so I don't know what is going on.
     
  19. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I am having a lot of trouble setting up the SS. I can't get past first base! I have a google account and when I try and access it - it says "someone else has an account with the same name" (YES THAT IS ME!!) :banghead: and no matter what I do I can't change it. I even tried using my husbands google account and the same thing happened. I am obviously doing something wrong but I can't see what it is. I have spent 2 hours trying to get past first base. Can anyone help me please?Sorry. I know you are all busy people.
     
  20. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    @Marje and Gracie help a lot of people set up spreadsheets. I've tagged her to help you out. Not sure when she will have time to do this for you, but she is really fast at getting the SS set up for people.
     
  21. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Thank you very much Deb and Wink. I hate to ask anyone as I know how busy people are. It wasn't that I could not set it up. It was that I couldn't get into the google a/c for whatever reason, and it would not let me set up another one. I'm obviously doing something wrong.
     
  22. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Adequan is what people in the US use for arthritis, but it's not available easily in Canada. I looked it up cartrophen for someone else in Australia, so perhaps you can get both. I can get temgesic here too, but buprenorphine is best absorbed through the skin and it's much easier to squirt liquid onto Neko's inside cheeks.

    I see that Sheba is also on Benazapril (as is Neko for proteinuria). If you haven't read Tanya's CRF site, there is a lot of good information on ace inhibitors there. It's a great resource for renal issues. There are also some possible concerns when Metacam and Benazapril are given together. Here's a quote from the product fact sheet from Neko's benazapril manufacturer:
     
  23. At the top of the page, see the two blue bars that run all the way across? The lighter blue one has a link that says "watched threads". Click on that and it will list any threads you might have marked to "watch". On the right hand side is a button that will allow you to "stop watching" all with one click.
     
  24. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Bron,

    I feed Saoirse mini meals 12 times a day (once every 2 hours). I usually add about 12-24 ml water to most of them (c. 200ml/day) That's on top of the moisture in her food. I see Sarah has already explained who the NSA are. :)
     
  25. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I have just looked up adequate and cartrophan and they are different things. I thought they were the same. My mistake. I am not sure what we can get in Australia. I will ask the vet. I have just been on the net looking up arthritis treatments and one site said that glucosamine should not be given to diabetics. Have you heard that?
    I will look at my literature in my benazapril box re metacam. Nothing is straightforward.
    Your Neko looks a very contented pussy cat
     
  26. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Adequan and cartrophen are similar medicines, but not identical. Similar results from what I've heard. We've got quite a few members here that give glucosamine chondroitin to their kitties. Cosequin is one brand, I use another. Both Neko's regular vet and acupuncture vet suggest it. Which reminds me, acupuncture has also been helpful for Neko's arthritis. She is a content kitty, especially if she can find a sunbeam. :)
     
  27. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Carl. Thanks. I have done that. Hope it works.
     
  28. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Critter Mom. You are a devoted Mom - 12 times a day! Saoirse is a lucky cat. How do you pronounce her name?
    Those glasses are still there. Maybe it is the NSA. My secret is no longer.:cool:


    Wendy and Neko - I have a lot to ask my vet tomorrow. Thanks
     
  29. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Her name is roughly pronounced Seer-shuh. It's Irish for 'freedom'. :)

    Re the 12 meals, it's necessary to keep her blood glucose in the healthy range. (If she fasts for any length of time, her BG spikes.) It's also less of a strain on her digestive system. Timed feeders are a godsend. :) It's tough at times, because I can never give her a fully satisfying amount of food. :(
     
  30. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I love her name!
    I understand completely what you mean about not fully satisfying her hunger. If I give Sheba her meal all at once, she will bolt it down in a flash and then up it comes again. So I feed her half her meal at the time of insulin but I give it in small amounts over about an hour. To remind myself I put the stove timer on, and it goes off every 10/12 minutes. As soon as it goes off, she comes to get me if I am not in the kitchen. I add water to all the mini meals also. Then at +3 I do the same thing again. I also have a timed feeder with 6 compartments. I use it most nights and put in a frozen chicken stock ice block, which I make, (about 8 mls in each) in each spot and set it hourly from 12mn to 5am. Occasionally I put in a tiny piece of cooked chicken as well. I find if I do that it stops her from vomiting about 6am from having nothing in her stomach for many hours. I think it is from the acid in her tummy. Anyway she loves her auto feeder :cat:
     
  31. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Bron,

    It would super-duper if you could post that info in this recent thread on the Think Tank forum:
    Food Links
    There is info on Australian food scattered throughout various threads, but there is a move to try to get food info in one place where it will be more accessible. And you will be the first Australian to post food info in that thread. Maybe it will encourage others to do likewise. :)

    There is some discussion at the moment about whether we should/could have a specific Food Forum. And it may become possible to have different threads/sub forums for different locations (ie, USA and North America, UK and Western Europe, Australia and NZ) if folks want to do that. But the discussion has gone a bit quiet at the moment...:rolleyes:

    Eliz
     
  32. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi Eliz,
    I would be very happy to post the information in the Food Links. Would it be OK if I do it tomorrow? It is getting late here and I have to be up early tomorrow morning. It will give me a chance to find all the info also. It is in various emails. I found all the places I emailed or rang to be very helpful and were happy to give me the information I wanted.
    I think that is a great idea to have a Food Forum especially for different places in the world.
    Bron
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  33. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    It would be great if you could do it any time at all, Bron! :) No hurry (sorry, didn't mean to make you feel under any pressure....)
    Nighty night.....:bighug:
     
  34. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Phlika29
    You wrote: What is in the chicken stock? Do you make it yourself?
    Yes I make the chicken stock myself. Just bones and water and boil it for 5 or 6 hours. I usually use the bones twice and the stock is like jelly. I let it set overnight in the frig then take the fat off the top, then I freeze it in ice trays and use it whenever needed. It defrosts into a lump of jelly - Sheba loves it.
    How do you copy and paste so it is in colour?I have seen it in other threads. Thanks
    Bron
     
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  35. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi Eliz,
    Please don't think I feel under pressure at all! I am really happy to help.
    I am just such a night owl I have to force myself to go to bed. I am chronically tired because I don't know how to turn off the light.:bookworm:
    Bron
     
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  36. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Bron

    I'm out of town but can set the SS up from my iPad just as quickly as from my home computer. I'm just hanging out at the hospital with my mom and she's sleeping slot so I've got time to do it.

    I'm going to send you a private message as I need to get your email address to do this. You will see s "1" up by "inbox" in upper right corner of forum. That will take you to the message.
     
  37. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Saoirse was the same with the vomiting and it was due to excess stomach acid. It only manifested itself just after she was diagnosed. The vet who diagnosed her insisted that she be fed only twice a day. I followed her instructions for only a few cycles and Saoirse had really painful vomiting bouts after only a few hours (foamy, liquid vomitus). I then tried feeding every four hours, but that was still too long a fast and Saoirse vomited again. After a few days, I went back to making sure she had something to eat every three hours minimum and that stopped the vomiting. She was on Caninsulin at first (in-out insulin, hard, fast onset and short duration in cats). The third meal in every cycle was just a small snack but it was enough to keep something in her tummy to prevent the acid build-up. I did include the occasional dose of famotidine in her treatment regimen for a while.

    During the worst of Saoirse's major pancreatitis flare last year I fed her tiny amounts every hour (that's when I had to invest in the timed feeders). I tried to gradually move her back to three-hourly feeds (now on Lantus), but the poor wee créatúr was too hungry by the 2-hour mark. Also, I found from Saoirse's BG test results that her blood glucose levels were better with the 2-hourly feeds, especially on very low carb food (<2% cals from carbs). Her BG starts to rise if she goes more than three hours without food, and the longer the fast the higher the climb. If I could find a slightly higher-carb food that agreed with her digestive system her BG levels would actually be lower and I'd be able to give her slightly more filling meals at about 3-hourly intervals.

    Saoirse has ongoing issues with the pancreatitis ( :( ) but things have got better in some respects. As the worst of the symptoms subsided she was able to fast longer without vomiting. She can now fast much longer without vomiting (found that out when I passed out a few times without loading her feeders - I've got PTSD/fatigue problems - and also when she failed to eat some of her timed feeds). She actually went 11 hours without food this week fasting for the dental-that-didn't-happen, but she has been more uncomfortable over the last few days as a consequence. I'm currently trialling Saoirse on slippery elm bark. She didn't get a dose yesterday morning and was struggling a bit to eat overnight. I gave her some ondansetron in the small hours but it didn't work as well as usual. At the next meal I gave her some SEB (which she lurves - who knew?) and she has been able to eat much better for it since. It's the first notable indicator that the SEB is benefiting her.
     
  38. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Thanks

    You press reply button in the message you want to quote (bottom right of the message) and it will appear in your box with the words quote around it
     
  39. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    There's also another way to quote people's comments when the posts are quite long, Bron. All you need to do is click 'n' drag to highlight the comment you want to respond to . The screen should then display a little "Reply" tag under the highlighted text. If you then click on the "Reply" tag, it will move you to the response box with the highlighted text already there as a quoted comment. (Hope that makes sense ... o_O)
     
  40. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Thanks phlika29 and critter mom for the instructions on how to quote comments

    Sheba had a good cycle last night after 4 days of high numbers.
    PMPS 20.4 (367); + 3 17.3 (311); +5 6.8 (122) +7 5.5 (99) +9 8.2 (147). AMPS 21.1 (379)
    Now at + 3.5 she has bounced to 26.6 (478). Well I am assuming it is a bounce as she dropped quickly from +3 to +5. I gave her a small amount of medium carb food to try and stop the rapid drop after +5. Giving her low carb food in this situation doesn't seem to make a difference. I have 4 carb weruva I use if needed. I think this is an area I need to look at and fine tune. Comments welcome please

    I am off to the vet now to get her checked out and, I hope, to sort out her pain management
    Bron
     
  41. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    20.4 to 5.5 is one helluva drop! :eek: Especially on what is generally considered to be one of the 'gentler' insulins for cats. (Going on experience of a very harsh in-out insulin (Caninsulin) and general wary gut feel here.)

    I know diddly squat about treating a cat with Levemir but, regardless of insulin type, if Saoirse had a drop like that I'd be seriously questioning whether she might be on too strong a dose. I hope that other members who have experience of treating their cat(s) with Levemir will give you more information.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
  42. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Good luck and the vet today and finding a solution for the pain management. My Neko is on Levemir. Although she thankfully isn't bouncing as much anymore, we have seen some Levemir kitties who like to do big drops and bounce like Sheba does. We'll be able to say more about dosing once we see data in the spreadsheet, and I see you now have one in your signature. :)

    The first thing that comes to mind is seeing if you can slow the drop with food. It looks like her onset is somewhere between +3 and +5. Maybe try feeding her a little higher carb food around +3 to +4 so that she has those carbs on board when she onsets, instead of feeding after she's already done the drop. The idea is to slow the rate of the drop so she doesn't bounce so much as a result.
     
  43. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    It is really late here and I have only just now had a chance to open my computer. My DH is unwell and I am in for a broken night's sleep. It has just been one of those days. We went to the vet this morning and he checked her over well. Said her teeth, heart, lungs, abdo were all good. He took blood for a complete profile and said he will ring me tomorrow with the results. He emails me the results as well. We had a long chat about Pain meds. I went well armed thanks Wendy with names of drugs and I must say he is very open to all ideas and if he hasn't heard of something. He will look it up. When I approached him about putting Sheba on levemir months ago, he had not heard of it. They use lantus. So he did reaearch on it, then agreed to prescribe it for Sheba. Said she could be their test case. Now he is interested to try it on another cat. Anyway I digress.........back to pain meds. We agreed to give Sheba a course of cartrophen injections and she had the first one today. Temgesic is in tablet form here. They don't seem to have it in liquid. Getting meds compounded here is very expensive. All animal meds are expensive here. The benazapril 5 mg tablets are about $140 for 42 tablets. Sheba has one a day so that costs $140 every 42 days which is crazy. I am also going to give her a joint care product which has green lipid mussels in it. We talked about metacam
     
  44. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Woops...I hit the wrong button and sent it off. We talked about metacam and the interaction with benazapril.. He is going to look into that. He wants to get the bloods back before deciding on the pain meds. If her kidneys are ok I think I might like to go back on a small dose of metacam.. The vet wants to see her results first. I just hate seeing her with these high bsls and her mobility had definitely deteriorated in the last few days.. I feel too tired at the moment to make any decisions.
    Marje very kindly set my SS up for me. I was going to get it sorted tonight but it is too late now and I am too tired and I would only muck it up.
    Thanks Wendy for the advise on managing the drop. That is a good idea to feed the +3+4. I will have to go out and get some more supplies. I don't have a lot as I don't use much canned food. Just some for the low numbers. She can be such a diver at times and at the moment I don't know if she is going to have a active cycle. We were getting them all the time a few weeks ago. Do you mean to give her a food with carbs of around 10 or 16. I thought I could mix some higher carb food in with her mormal food so she is getting it spread over an hour or two..is that what you mean?
    I am off to sleep. I can hardly keep awake.
    Thanks everyone for all the great input. I will let you know how the blood results go. I hope there are no nasty surprises.
    Bron
     

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