New to this forum and new to cat diabetes

Vets only do caninsulin no prozinc.
Also they have said once he's regulated I won't need to check his BG before insulin shots is that right?

 

Prozinc has only been available in the UK for a couple of years (in the US for ages). The ISFM (International Society for Feline Medicine) recommend its use over that of Caninsulin. And the RVC's research has also found benefits in using Prozinc in that it tends to drop the blood glucose more slowly and last in the system longer. However, many UK vets are being damnably slow in adapting to these recommendations, and some will still only prescribe Caninsulin....
That said, some cats do just fine on Caninsulin, and there are certainly ways of working with it to get the best out of it. If it doesn't work for Sox, and your vet is unwilling to prescribe an alternative, you might want to consider finding a vet who will prescribe something else.

That's hogwash. Sorry, Becki....
A cat's need for insulin can change a lot over time. They may need more, they quite often need less. And quite a number of cats will go into remission during the first few months on insulin.

Eliz

 

Becki @Becki and sox , about a year ago a group of us put together a beginner's guide to using Caninsulin which has a lot of info in it. It's based on members' experience of using this insulin. Here's the link:
Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin)
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Thank you ill have a look at thst link.
Im already changing Sox to another vets just as I've not been overly appt with current vets. I have him booked in in on Thursday now else where so I will see how I get on there.

 

Becki @Becki and sox , you (or your vet! ) may be interested to see this from the ISFM guidelines (I've made some of the relevant text 'bold', and have written a couple of comments in italics):

"Clinical challenges:
Although the diagnosis of diabetes is usually straightforward, optimal management can be challenging. Clinical goals should be to limit or eliminate clinical signs of the disease using a treatment regimen suitable for the owner, and to avoid insulin-induced hypoglycaemia or other complications.
Optimising bodyweight, feeding an appropriate diet and using a longer acting insulin preparation (eg, protamine zinc insulin, insulin glargine or insulin detemir) are all factors that are likely to result in improved glycaemic control in the majority of cats." [Here the guidelines are recommending Prozinc or the 'human' insulins, but not Caninsulin]
There is also some evidence that improved glycaemic control and reversal of glucose toxicity may promote the chances of diabetic remission.
Owner considerations and owner involvement are an important aspect of management. Provided adequate support is given, and owners are able to take an active role in monitoring blood glucose concentrations in the home environment, glycaemic control may be improved." [Here they're noting the benefit of homestesting on overall control of blood glucose.]

Sorry, don't want to overload you with stuff. But, just for reference, here is the link to the ISFM consensus guidelines:
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1098612X15571880

 

Thanks @Elizabeth and Bertie I'll have a read.
Feel bad moving him to another vets now but these just seem a bit better. They don't do prozinc but I'll definitely bring it up with them while I'm there.

 

I

I've lost count of how many owners are forced to find a new vet when their existing one doesn't deliver. You need a vet with proven experience of managing FD (ask how many of their patients are in remission or are well regulated) and one who supports home testing. Nothing less will do.

 

Print the content out, mark the areas you want to remember with a coloured pen and keep it with you at all times to refer to. Everything you need to know is there really.

 

Indeed, Diana. It's a real shame... And vets who really know about diabetes are pretty rare. Not everyone can find such a vet....

We went to our current vet after the vet who diagnosed Bert with diabetes suggested we have him put to sleep!
The current vet is great with all the general stuff, and very kind. I really like and respect him. But we've still had very different views on managing Bertie's diabetes over the years, and I've had to fight for better insulin options. Thankfully, after a while, he pretty much just let me get on with it.
....When I first went to him he told me that I 'shouldn't need to hometest'. I then asked him what he found the typical lifespan of diabetic cats to be after diagnosis. He said, 'about two years is average'. .....Bertie was only eight! I got online and started learning, fast, haha!
.

 

Yeah I do find it hard to find a vet who you feel is totally reliable and one who you feel you are getting the best information from.
@Elizabeth and Bertie that's like Sox he's only 9. I've tested his brother too and my other 2 cats just to make sure their bloods are all ok. Which thankfulpy they are.
Fingers crossed I'll be more comfortable with this new vets.
If they say insulin on Thursday will we get it there and then or does it have to be ordered?

 

Sooo... Wether it's the butcher's or Sox is just keeping me on my toes lol

BG levels today
6.50am 18.0 then fed butchers
12pm 17.6
7.10pm 15.4 then fed butchers
10.00pm 15.4

 

So as there's very little difference in bg whatever you feed, you might as well keep stocks of both and vary all the cats's diet a bit, if they all like it all. Sox seems stuck in the mid to high teens so you want to get some insulin into him asap. I should think the vet will give it to you there and then.

 

Oh, well done!

If Caninsulin, it's likely they'll have it in stock, because it's used for dogs and cats. Anything else it's likely they'd order and it would take a couple of days.
They should suggest you start on a very low dose, because Sox's numbers aren't that high. Personally, I'd be reluctant to suggest more than half a unit initially...

Nice to see that little drop there. Just so wish it would come down further....

...It is interesting that the blood glucose didn't seem to rise after the Butcher's, but remained stable... What happened when you fed the other food, do you know? Just curious to know if the 'various sugars' spiked the blood glucose at all...

Eliz

 

Lol it was the first thing I done after I tested Sox I was thinking best check the others make sure their ok.

When I fed the sainsburys it did go up a little. Not go the numbers in front of me at the moment.
@Elizabeth and Bertie he was still 15.4 this morning. I even tested my self to make sure the reader wasn't stuck on 15.4 as that's been his last 3 readings.

He is in the vets at 4 on Thursday... Keeping fingers crossed it may go down a little more before then

 

Are these treats any good or not as the have potato starch in. And that would be carbs wouldn't it?

 

Hmmm... In a way it doesn't look toooooo bad.... It's certainly better than a lot of treats. But it doesn't say how much potato is in there, and as you say, potato is a carb source.... Pure meat or fish treats are a more reliable bet. Or little pieces of plainly cooked meat or fish. Or a tiny cube of cheese....
At this point, ahead of the vet visit, I'd be inclined to stick with the foods that are most likely to bring about the best results, to see if there's any chance at all of that blood glucose being tweaked down a bit more...
.

 

Yeah that's what I thought. Sox does love abit of cheese.

I thought we were doing well sticking at 15.4 just got in from a later night with work and back up to 17.3 @ 8pm then fed the butcher's.

Tested again just at 10pm bloods 15.6 so if anything that food seems to make it lower. If that's possible.

And 13.2 this morning is it going to come down more...we shall see lol

 

Ooh, that drop a couple of hours after eating is nice to see. Could be that the food stimulated the pancreas to produce a little insulin...

That's nice to see too!
.

 

Hello everyone, I registered here to ask a question. My cat has recently been diagnosed with diabetes, but I live in a private house and wanted to make the door for him, which is something https://www.bestadvisor.com/cat-doors And has not yet decided. The question itself is it safe to let the cat out on the street or is it still worth refusing this idea? I will be glad if someone answers

 

Hello Ivan, I'm afraid nobody will see your question in this thread. Are you able to start your own thread in the main forum?
The link to the main forum is below. When you're on that page click on the 'Post New Thread' tab, top right hand corner of the page.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/feline-health-the-main-forum.28/
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Hi Becki @Becki and sox
I think you have your vet visit scheduled for tomorrow? And a decision will be made about whether to start insulin?
....Just wanted to say that I've been in touch with the RVC (Royal Veterinary College) over the past week, asking some questions about UK vets prescribing insulin for diabetic cats. As you know (and as posted further up the thread) the International Society for Feline Medicine recommends longer lasting insulins for cats.
I contacted the RVC because I wanted specific info about how that 'international' recommendation translates to UK cats. The RVC replied saying, "There is no reason why Caninsulin should be prescribed first. Current guidelines for management of diabetes in cats suggest starting insulin treatment with a long-acting insulin preparation (in the UK only ProZinc is licensed)".
They went on to say that the guidelines are that new cases be prescribed longer acting insulin (Prozinc is the only such licensed veterinary insulin for cats), since this has been found to give better glycaemic control and increased chance of remission.

...Really don't want to make your life more difficult, Becki. And I know that your vet favours Caninsulin. But I couldn't 'not' give you this information...

Eliz

 

@Elizabeth and Bertie thank you for that.
We are booked in for tonight could you also recommend if there's anything we could use on Sox ears to stop them getting to sore after jabbing them?
12.9 this morning so it is slowly coming down. I'm wondering if that is butcher's making it come down at all.
And if we were to carry on with food if it would come down any more.

I did give him 3 little treats this morning we brought which I though we're ok. Then relooked at ingredients and noticed the rice and veg origin in there. Won't hurt though just giving 3 will it?

 

Chances are it will be just fine, Becki. Will be interesting to see if they do have an effect (so much of managing feline diabetes seems to be an experiment initially!)

That 12.9 is nice. Still trending downward...
.

 

@Elizabeth and Bertie I'm hoping it doesn't change it too much my husband is gonna test him again at 12 today.
Do you think the vet will suggest insulin if the numbers are still coming down?

 

Becki, it may well be that they think that 12.9 is 'borderline' for insulin (especially since it's currently trending downwards again).
Is that on a human meter? It would be a bit higher than that on the vet's meter though, as they usually use pet meters which 'read' higher and use a different scale.
.

 

Yeah that's on my human meter. I am trying to see if I can find an alphatrak 2nd hand just as a comparison one too.
I'm going to take my meter to vets tonight to see what the difference is between mine and theirs.

 

So while at the vets my human BG meter read 16.5 and the alphatrak read 27.

Quiet a big difference I was thinking.
We've ordered prozinc and going to start on a small dose.

 

Something not right there - the discrepancy between the meters shouldn't be that much! What did the vet say about that?

 

The vet didn't say much just that they rely more on the alphatrak readings.
Could there be a problem with my meter maybe?

 

Possibly, or the strips. It's slightly concerning as you do want to get accurate readings if you're now going to give insulin, even a small dose. Good news about the Prozinc though, vets usually want to prescribe Caninsulin first but Prozinc is often better for cats (Caninsulin is really for dogs).

 

This explains it better than I can:

Most meters come with a vial of test solution, which is fake blood with a set amount of sugar in it. You can use the test solution to make sure your meter is working within the normal operating range. You simply take a test just like you would test your blood sugar, but instead of lancing you finger and testing your blood, you put a drop of test solution on the tip of your finger and test it.

Each vial of test strips will have a range of expected results printed on it. So long as the test you took falls within those numbers, the meter is working normally.

One important note, however, is that about half the meters available need to be coded to match each batch of test strips. This may be done with a chip that comes with the strips and needs to be plugged into the side of the meter, or by using the key pad on the meter to enter a one- or two-digit number that is printed on the vial of strips.

Many newer meters are “self coding,” but if you have a meter that requires coding and it is not properly coded, it can be off by as much as 80 percent.

 

That's what I was thinking.
The meter was one of my nans but there's no control solution in it What human meters does every one else use?

 

So neither of my machines have control solution but I've tested on both machines and go near enough the same.

 

I found my human meter was about 5 pts off from the alphatrak if that helps any.

 

@majandra what meter do you use. Ours is showing at a 11pt difference. Not sure if that's normal?

 

I use the Freestyle Lite. When you tested at the vet's did you use the same drop of blood? And is there any chance their meter was calibrated for canine blood?

 

Oh one more thing, meters can have a 20% variance, which could further influence the disparity between values.

 

@majandra yeah it was the same blood. And I'm not sure. She just had it set up ready

Mine was reading more than a 20% difference though

 

20% variance within the same meter- sorry I didn't clarify that.

 

@MrWorfMen's Mom Can you offer advice here about the alphatrak variance from human meters? I don't know how to link to your reply on my thread.

 

Ahh okies I just don't know how reliable it is now if I'm gonna start giving insulin

 

There is no conversion that is going to tell you what the equivalent reading would be on a human vs. pet meter. Cat blood and human blood are different and the meters are programmed to test according to the species of blood it "thinks" it's testing and this is why the human meters tend to read lower than the pet meters. Generally speaking the higher the BG the larger the difference will be between the two meters with the pet meter reading higher. At lower range BG the numbers can be significantly closer but the pet meter is often still higher. All meters in the US are allowed a 20% variance. In Canada they are allowed a 15% variance but that 15% may not apply to the pet meters on the market. To add to the conundrum, some human meters read a bit lower and some a bit higher at different BG ranges so even comparing two human meters can end up making one scratch their head. It's really best to pick a meter and stick with it.
Does that help?

 

@MrWorfMen's Mom my question is though how reliable will my human meter be if I'm going to be giving insulin if mine reads 16.5 while with the same blood the alphatrak reads 27.0? Thank you

Tested again this morning and back down to 12.1 so not sure how reliable it is cause if it goes by the difference we saw yesterday would it be 23.1 if we tested on alphatrak

 

Becki, it took me absolutely ages to 'get my head around' the differences between human meters and pet meters, and I can remember really getting in a tizz about it at one point and posting here asking "but which one is correct?!"
...The answer is that both are correct. You're just working with a different range of numbers. The blood glucose level is what it is, the meters describe it differently; just as Centigrade and Fahrenheit are different ways of describing temperature.

The most important thing to know is what constitutes normal numbers and low numbers on whichever meter you're using.
The normal range (for non-diabetics, and cats in remission) is approximately 2.7 to 6.6 on a human meter, or 3.6 to 8.3 on an Alphatrak. Some cats will naturally run a little higher or lower than that.
Numbers below 2.7 on a human meter, or 3.6 on an Alphatrak can be considered potentially hypoglycemic for a cat on insulin.

Becki, you say you tested your other cats. What results did you get...? Those should tell you whether your meter is OK or not...

Eliz

 

Becki, we have a Prozinc subforum here where you can get specific advice on using this insulin. They're a lovely friendly bunch, and there's some experienced people there.

There are also three info documents that you may find helpful in the Prozinc forum. The first is the beginner's guide to Prozinc. The second is FDMB's basic dosing protocol for Prozinc. The third contains additional info and more advanced techniques.
BEGINNER’S GUIDE TO PROZINC/ PZI INSULIN FOR DIABETIC CATS
PROTOCOL FOR PROZINC / PZI
Advanced Information for Experienced ProZinc/PZI Users

And here's the link to the Prozinc forum so you can have a look:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
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I was SO pleased to read this.... Was a bit worried that your vet was going to insist on Caninsulin....
.

 

@Elizabeth and Bertie thank you. That's good to read I think I started to panic abit last night that I wasn't going to be able to monitor him properly been as though the readings were so different.
I did test my other 3 cats and my mom's cat and they all ranged between the 2.5 to 2.7.
So I know really on my meter I want to be heading towards that way.
Insulin should be here today so I'm booked in tomorrow to learn how to administer.
Think this is gonna be quiet scary to do as most times I'll need to do it on my own due to husband doing shifts.
Is it quiet easy once you've got the hang of it?

 

It's interesting that they're all in the lower end of the normal range, and it 'may' mean that your meter does read a tad on the low side. But that's much safer than reading high!

It can feel a bit scary at first. It's something new, and it's natural to feel some apprehension. Most of us have never handled a syringe before, so even that can take a few goes to get used to. (I was scared of syringes and practiced my technique on oranges, haha!)
But you will amazed how quickly this becomes completely ordinary and routine.

You're also already doing really well in that you've changed the diet and learned to hometest!
And you have a great attitude about it all. You are going to do just fine, Becki!
.

 

Becki, will you be home much over the weekend and able to keep an eye on Sox?

 

Do you think I should try a different make machine as both the freestyle freedom lite and the freestyle lite both read the same so both are on the lower end?

Yes I suppose it does. The BG test scared me too at first but now I feel fine doing that.

Yes I'll be at home all weekend Ive got my appointment tomorrow morning at 11.30 to learn how to administer the insulin. Will they give him his first dose there and then? I'm off Sunday to and back at work on Monday morning.

@Elizabeth and Bertie thank you

 

Becki, all meters have their own idiosyncracies. They are not meant to be 100% accurate/precise. They give you a reasonably accurate picture of BG at a moment in time. If you try another meter that reads higher at low range BG numbers it could potentially read a bit lower at higher range numbers than the Freestyle meters. It's all relative. The Freestyle meters have been highly rated by Consumer reports over the last few years.

I used the AT2, the Freestyle Lite and Freestyle Freedom Lite meters. The Freestyle meters do read a bit lower than others at low ranges but as Eliz said, I preferred having a meter that read a bit lower than one that reads high because I wanted to be alerted to take action a bit early rather than when it had already become a critical issue.

 

The 2 meters I have are around 6 years old. They should still be ok shouldnt they.

Like I say I've tested all the other cats too and average the 2.7 mark mark so if when I start treating sox with insulin I'll know that that is the number I'm heading to as all my other cats are at that range. That should be ok shouldnt it?

 

Your meters should be fine and yes your ultimate goal would be have Sox BG in somewhat the same range. Bear in mind though, every cat as in every human, is different so while your other cats "normal" seems to be around 2.7, Sox might be more balanced at a slightly lower or higher "normal". BG is constantly changing so your goal is to get Sox into normal range without the need for insulin rather than to have him mirror your other cats.

If you did want to upgrade your meters, ABBOTT often offers free meters with purchase of strips or if your meters were registered with ABBOTT, they might give you a free upgrade.

 

I'll have a look on their web site at that then.
We no longer have any one in the family with diabetes we kept the meters when my nan passed so probably wouldn't get them changed and I'm not sure if she ever registered them.

 

Well if you go for a new free meter, you'll just have to complete the coupon as if it were for human use. They might get suspicious if you put SOX on there as the user name!

 

Haha where do you find the offers for the free meters with strips?

 

I just went to a pharmacy and asked for strips with a free meter, and they filled out the coupon. Not surenif it is different outside Canada. I also used a different pharmacy than my own so that it didn't go onto my health plan.

With my Freestyle Lite, my first reading was on my nosy civvie, and was 2.7 also.

 

Where are you located?

 

Ooo that's good too know then. So on the freestyle that much be pretty average for a non diabetic cat then.

I'm in the UK

 

HERE is the link for the ABBOTT UK site. I don't see any coupon offer there now and I don't know if they do the same free offers in the UK that they do here in Canada. You could check with your local pharmacy as they'd know if there are free meter/upgrade offers there. The offers generally rotate between their meter offerings so an offer for a meter may be on the website for a few months and then be replaced with an offer for another meter but eventually the offer usually starts again.
Your current meters seem to be working fine so if you do get the free meter offers, you could just wait for the next offer to upgrade.

 

Yeah definitely thank you always worth knowing as mine were hand me downs.

And definitely knowing some one else got a reading of 2.7 on a normal cat on a freestyle meter is good just confirms my meter

 

Just don't panic if you should test your civvies one day and get a lower BG. I've had 2.1, 2.3 and 2.4 on occasion on my Freestyle since stopping insulin with my girl although her more frequent range is low 3's. A cat that is not on insulin is not going to go hypo unless there is another medical condition at play.

 

Great thank you.

So if once sox is on insulin and he was to go below 2.7 would you worry with him then because of him been on the insulin?

 

With a cat on insulin, your goal is to get them into "normal" range numbers. Because you are giving insulin, and the cat's ability to regulate their glucose is impaired, you start with a low dose, gradually increase it and test as you go along to see how each dose is working. In the beginning you aim for better numbers but not anything as low as 2.7. At 2.7 with a cat on insulin, we would be taking action to bring their BG up a little because when you are giving insulin, the BG could continue to drop more to dangerously low levels and you don't want the cat dropping any lower than 2.7.

This is a marathon not a sprint, so it takes time to get a cat regulated. What range of BG you ultimately aim for also depends on what type of insulin you are using, how long kitty has been diabetic, your ability to monitor and how much data you have to know how your kitty reacts to the insulin you are giving. It's about keeping kitty safe while learning how they react and then dosing accordingly. We can help you with all of this.

 

Hi Becki...I'm from the US and I save a lot by not getting stuff from my vet....for me it made a huge difference just changing vets. I happened to move right when Lilly was diagnosed earlier this year and had to get a new vet. What an eye opener that was. Went from paying $60 to $70 per visit (without any additional tests...I almost never left that office paying less than $150 after tests) to $20 an office visit and only $10 for the bg tests they do in office. HUGE difference and my new vet is a cat internist who specializes in diabetic cats. So much better care, much less costs. I also did a lot of reading about those "prescription" foods. From what I read, the ONLY thing that makes them "prescription" is the fact that the manufacturer has an agreement with the veterinarians to only sell to them so you have to have a "prescription" to get it....thus driving up the cost. And, like others have said, I found much better / lower carb food online for Lilly. Now that I test Lilly myself, I only bring her to the vet if she is having a problem or for her annual checkup. My vet is cool about that....as long as I'm monitoring. I order her needles online and use ebay for the test strips. I was overwhelmed at first too. It gets easier and Lilly is very healthy now.

 

Thanks guys it's is abit overwhelming with everything to learn but I'm sure I will get there.
It's new territory and a learning curve you guys have all been there done that and are so knowledgeable... But we all start some where.

Does insulin always get given with food?

 

The general sequence is;
1. TEST. To see if the cat's blood glucose is high enough for that dose of insulin.
2. FEED. To make sure the kitty has food on board for when the insulin kicks in.
3. GIVE SHOT.

Many people give the shot while their cat is eating, and the cats often don't even notice if they've got their face in a plateful of food.

There are a couple of situations in which it can be helpful to wait a little while after feeding before giving the shot.
Cats on a fast-acting insulin (Caninsulin or Novolin) can benefit from this. But it wouldn't normally be necessary with Prozinc.
And those with kitties that are inclined to puke sometimes after eating may want to wait to ensure that the kitty keeps the food down.

There are people on the forum at all stages, from complete newcomers who've arrived here just today to people who've been here for many years. But everyone was a newcomer once. And everyone knows and understands what it's like to be new to diabetes.
You really will be just fine, Becki. In just a little while your confidence will grow immensely. Really.

Eliz

 

I'm sure it will all click into place as I get more experienced in it.... Just like anything it takes time.

Been as though Sox has dropped down to 10.5 and 12.4 and some points is there a number that I'm looking for if when I test him for insulin that if I get on meter I would not administer insulin?

 

In the beginning, when you don't have any data, we usually suggest no insulin if fasting BG pre-shot is about 11 or less on a human meter. Once you get some data and know how much the insulin is reducing BG during the cycles, then the no shot number can be re-evaluated and gradually decreased if safe to do so. The first step in this dance is to get to know how Sox reacts to insulin.

 

First insulin shot given today. The vet has recommended 1.5 shots 2x a day and to give it a week and then do my curve.
Sox was such a good boy letting me learn on him he was very well behaved.

 

Oh, bless him. He looks like a real sweetie...

Becki, did you manage to get a blood glucose test before going to the vet (or at the vet) prior to giving the insulin?
And are you home and able to get any other tests today?

Eliz

 

Yeah I got a test at 9 when he ate before his injection at half 9.
I do need to bring his feeding times back to around 7ish for Monday due to work. The vet nurse said just do it half an hour earlier each feed to bring it back to the right time.
Yeah I'm in now all day. She did say I didn't need to test now to give his ears a rest but to be fair I'd rather do some tests for my own piece of mind before I give his next shot tonight.

 

Just tested 4 hours post insulin injection and he is 8.3 thinking that's quiet good?

 

That is a good number Becki but what was the reading you took at 9am?

Has anyone mentioned to you that we have a wonderful spreadsheet we use here to track the readings we take. It is stored on google docs and we put a link in our signatures so that anyone here can click on the link and see the readings. The sheet automatically colour codes the readings so it's easy to see the pattern of the readings you are getting which really helps when making dosing decisions. The instructions for setting up the spreadsheet are HERE and
THIS DOC explains how to use the spreadsheet. You need to use the World sheet for human meters if you are using the Freestyle meter.

 

Sorry I forgot to add that on. It was 15.3 at 9am this morning.
Yeah I saw the spread sheets I've tried to do one but not sure if it's because I'm trying to do it on my phone that it's not working properly. (No access to laptop/desktop)
I'll give it another go though

 

Sox is having a good cycle. Can you get another reading around +6 so we can see whether Sox goes any lower?

As for the spreadsheet, do you have Google Drive and Google sheet apps installed on your phone? You will need both along with a google account. Let's see if we can get you sorted.

 

Yes I can do that so test him around half 3. That's then 6 hours post insulin.
The vet nurse said I didn't need to be testing him really but personally I think it's better to know how he's reacting to it than just keep injecting him.

Think I might have done it... Let's see if it's on my signature of this post lol

 

I see the link but when I click it, it tells me I need permission. Looks like your share settings need to be changed. You need to set it so that anyone with a link can view it.

As for testing, it is really important to know how the insulin is working and the only way to do that is to make sure you get pre-shot tests to ensure it's safe to give insulin and then to test mid cycle to see how well the dose of insulin is working. Dosing is based on those 2 pieces of information. If you are working during the week and can't get mid cycle tests, then you test when you can in the evenings. And we also suggest getting a before bed test just so you know Sox will be safe overnight and if he is dropping , you can leave extra food for him so you can get some shuteye.

 

I think I've changed it... Does the link work now.

The vets just said to give the injections and not worry about the testing but then like you say how do you know he's not too low or anything before a shot. They said to give these shots untill I can do my curve next sunday. Due to work.

 

Yeah! You are up and running! Great job!

Curves are fine but they only tell you what's going on for one cycle one day. Every day is not the same with our furry diabetics so getting mid cycle tests when you are able to do so, is much more informative. They also give you a "video" of Sox progress over time rather than snapshots. Curves add to the daily data rather than replace it. Some folks who work do their shots early enough that they can grab a test before running out the door to work. Others grab a test when they get home and some can only test in the evenings and weekends. Any data is helpful.

I'll check back in to see what Sox is up to at +6 in about half hour or so. We don't deal with actual times around here because of all the different time zones. I'm in Canada so 5 hours behind you.

 

6 hours post insulin 4.4

I'm thinking the numbers will start to creep back up again now seen as we're half way through the 12 hours?

But if however hes still low when next jab is due do I still give him the jab or am I best not to cause would I risk making him dip too low then?

 

Becki, ProZinc usually peaks in it's action between +4 and +7 hours post shot so Sox may drop a bit more yet. I'd highly suggest you test him again in a half hour. He is safe right now but you don't want him going below 2.7. This is a prime example of why we recommend mid cycle testing especially when you first start insulin. The 1.5u dose is a bit higher than we would usually suggest for starting and for tonight ,depending on what Sox does today, you may want to back up to 1u (assuming your syringes only have full unit markings).
How are you feeding Sox? Meals only at shot times or do you give him some snacks in between?

 

He gets fed 2 meals a day breakfast and dinner. He's had a few chunks of chicken as a treat today just after his last BG check.
I'll test him again in another half an hour.
Should i get some thing in for if he drops too low or could I give him some crunchies or something.... Again I did ask the vets if I needed anything in but she said not at this stage

 

Corn syrup or honey would be good to have on hand along with some extra test strips, and some medium and high carb wet food. Crunchies (I presume thats is dry cat food?) are OK but they take longer to get processed than wet food so while helpful if BG drops too low, not the best of options except in a pinch. HERE is some reading about being prepared to deal with low BG situations.
I get the impression your vet didn't think Sox would be working the insulin so well. He's safe but he is dropping to low numbers for the first day on insulin.

 

Okie dokie will have to pop to shop and get some honey or a tub of glucose. I've heard people mention food in gravy.

7 hours post injection 3.5

I'm thinking he might not need 1.5u

 

Yes food in gravy is a great idea for your hypo kit. The gravy can be used to boost BG without filling kitty up with food.

 

Ok Becki. Sox is still safe but you need to give him something to eat to make sure he doesn't drop any lower. Give him a tsp or 2 of his usual food and test him again about 20-30 minutes after he finishes.
I agree the 1.5u is probably too much insulin. We'll see what he does today and then decide the best option for tonight.

 

Brought some carby foods just incase.
Fed him his normal food about 10 mins ago so I'll test him in half hour

 

Fed 2 spoons of his normal food BG back up to 5.0
Should I test him again in a hour or maybe 2?

 

Wonderful! When they get to a level that is close to that low of 2.7, giving them a bit of their usual diet will usually get them up a wee bit and stop the drop but you can't put your guard down totally so yes I would test again in an hour just to be safe. Right now, we don't know exactly how Sox is going to react so an extra bit of caution is needed. I'll check back in an hour. Good job testing and keeping Sox safe. You're off to a great start and what a beautiful cycle Sox had although I'm still not convinced the dose doesn't need to come down a bit at least just till you get a bit more info on his reactions.

 

Hi Becki, it looks like he is past the peak of the cycle. 'If' you can get a test in an hour that would still be good (really just for information), but you should be able to relax after that (watch a bit of 'Strictly' maybe, haha!)...
It 'may' be that Sox's blood glucose rises quickly ('bounces') in response to the blood glucose being lower than he's become accustomed to. If that happens don't let that bother you, it will settle down again. It will be interesting to see what his blood glucose is when his next shot is due.
You are really doing SO well.
(And you've had fab advice from MrWorfmen's Mom.)

Eliz

 

Oops, cross-posted with MrWorfmen's Mom. (Waving to you, Linda. )
I agree that the dose is too high.
.

 

Thanks guys I'll test him again in half hour and update you on what he is then

 

9 hours post insulin 6.6

Should I just wait for the next test now at half 8. He's due his food and shot at 9. It will be 11 and half hours since 1st injection but need to bring the time back down for feeding at half 7 on Monday when I'm back at work.

Any ideas on what I should do about tonight's insulin shot?

 

Sox is looking terrific. Looks like he's on his way back up now and there could still be some food influence too so I think you are safe to hold off testing again until 8:15pm, food and shot 8:45pm. I'm saying 8:15 because you can start backing your time up by 15 minutes per shot tonight and then 8am Sunday etc. which should have you back at half 7 by Monday morning.
Do your syringes have half unit markings on them? Just thinking about tonight's plan.

 

@MrWorfMen's Mom his injection was originally due at half 9 tonight so am I ok to give it at 9 instead?
Yeah they half lines and full lines on them.

 

The way Sox responded today I am reluctant to suggest backing up even a full half hour on this night cycle but you should be able to move ahead the full half hour on Sunday AM as long as you will be around to keep an eye on him. You have a little flexibility with ProZinc but I'd rather see what he does tonight before making any bigger time change than 15 minutes. I am thinking 1u would be a better dose for tonight but that is going to depend on his pre-shot BG. We now know how much he dropped today on 1.5u but as Eliz mentioned he may also bounce to higher numbers as a result. If I have my times straight, it's just after 7pm there and you'll be wanting to shoot at 9:15pm tonight. If you can test and feed Sox between 8:45 and 9pm and post pre-shot reading, I'll check in and we can make a final decision about dose.

@Elizabeth and Bertie I'm thinking 1u tonight depending of course on pre-shot. Your thoughts? (Waving back!)

 

Yeah it's 7.10 here now.
Yeah that's fine I'll test him and then feed him at 8.45 and post his BG.
You always test before feeding don't you.

 

Yes. Test first and make sure he has had no food for at least 2 hours before pre-shot tests.

 

Just tested and BG is 9.1 and fed his night feed just too.

Do I need to test again before giving the shot? And is there a certain amount of time I have to wait after giving him the shot before going to bed as of course I won't be able to test him through the night?